Also, C&B, that last comment may be the best articulated comment I’ve seen you post, so for that I commend you. I can see your point even though I may not fully agree with it.

Anyway. I’ve tried a hundred time in my head to articulate the point I’m trying to make and I can’t without it coming out exactly the same way – so I won’t.

The only person responsible for committing rape or sexual harassment is the person who commits it. The victim can be sitting at home in her sweatpants or wearing a tiny skirt in a club and how she behaves never, EVER justifies somebody raping her.

I wish I could explain my thought process better because I think it’s legitimate. Rules like the car one are put in place because if they’re not followed, bad things can happen. Here we have an example of somebody ignoring the rules and, low and behold, a BAD THING HAPPENS.

What can you DO with that? It’s not right to ignore it, like you’re doing here. It’s also not right to suggest that Saraid was responsible for her harassment, which is (even though I tried not to) what I was doing here.

I think, wish, or at least want it to be possible to fully accept that the only person responsible for a rape is the rapist, but STILL expect people to have some modicum of personal responsibility about their safety.

If this post had a message saying: “Hey, kids, learn from my example, if you break the rules something like this might happen to you” would make it sound like Saraid was responsible for the abuse she got from the hands of the Mexican guy.

Yet, however offensive that might be, it would still probably have a much more positive effect in preventing a rapist from having the opportunity to strike – much more positive than just kevetching about male entitlement.

YES, we live in a rape culture and YES we should do everything we can to change that, to change the preconceptions that some men have that they’re ‘entitled’ to treat women in a certain way.

But until we succeed in changing that culture, I think we should accept that we need to adjust our behavior to protect ourselves in it.

Also, you have no damn right to imply that Saraid is stupid. You seriously have no clue how much victim blaming you’re actually perpetrating. Like just this quote from your first comment: “they give sexual predators an opportunity to commit sexual harassment or rape.” THEY GIVE? REALLY?

I’ve read that post. And it angered the fuck out of me. And by putting the word “fault” in quotes, you completely take away the point of the word. I don’t care how “deeply personal” your perspective is on this scenario. I don’t care what “rules” you set for teens. The fact of the matter is, even if teens break the rules, they don’t deserve harassment.

Going back to the post you linked to, just because a girl goes to a frat party and drinks, doesn’t mean that she deserves to get raped. The thing is, “bad decisions” are only bad decisions because of the rape culture we live in. Under “normal” circumstances, they are just “a girl getting in a car with guys to get a ride somewhere” or “a girl going to talk in a room with a guy she met at a party.”

It’s the rape culture of male aggression and entitlement that makes it a “bad decision.” And you fail to understand that. Repeatedly. You think you’re “helping” but you’re not. The way you talk about rape perpetuates the thinking that causes rape culture. Because, whether subtly or not, it blames the victim. And by saying the “fault” lies with the perpetrators, you again disregard it by putting some of it on the victim. There is no “fault.” There is FAULT.

And while I appreciate males joining in on the discussion, I don’t appreciate it when they perpetuate the kind of shit we’re trying to eliminate under the guise of being on our side. Saraid did nothing wrong. People took what they felt entitled to. END OF STORY, RULES OR NO RULES.

And maybe you don’t get where we’re coming from, because we’re women speaking to you. Maybe if a man said EXACTLY what we’re saying, it would help. And so, I recommend reading Hugo Schwyzer, or Figleaf, who I’ve pointed you to before. Because you claim to fighting with us, but your comments work against us, and perpetuate all the same bullshit that we fight every day of our lives.

I don’t care where you worked. What happened to you. YOU ARE STILL BLAMING THE VICTIM. And it needs to fucking stop.

As I said, explicitly, directly, SPECIFICALLY – rape and sexual harassment are only the ‘fault’ of the dickheads who commit them. I really resent when people neatly ignore the fact that I write these things.

But try looking at it from an alternative perspective – I used to have a job in which parents entrusted me with the wellbeing of their teenagers like Saraid – and we established rules to create an environment in which we could realistically keep them safe. And there’d always be these stupid – and they WERE stupid – kids who’d get into cars or leave the group or break whatever rule it is that we established to try and keep them safe and PUT THEMSELVES IN DANGER.

And if anything happened to them (and thank fuck, nothing did during my tenure) there would be NOTHING I could have done to prevent it. Yet I was held responsible by them and their parents. Seriously, I’d have been sued.

So, yes, from a uniquely personal perspective that you aren’t trying to see from, I take this post kind of personally because it’s a situation in which parents, kids and the law held ME responsible for kids doing something FUCKING STUPID.

I was the person meant to look after them, and even though they broke the rules and put themselves in a dangerous situation in which I was no longer able to protect them, I was still apparently legally and morally responsible for them.,

I really recommend this post on Eden Fantasys http://www.edencafe.com/taking-responsibility/

I’m not going to apologize for my deeply personal perspective on this particular scenario.

I don’t want to get into ‘victim blaming’ or anything along those lines, but I do wish kids on these programs would realize that THIS IS EXACTLY WHY RULES LIKE THIS ARE IMPLEMENTED.

THEN DON’T. Because comments like that ARE victim blaming. Like the one on the post about my rape that implied that because I didn’t go to the police afterwards that it would be my fault if it happened to someone else.

The correct response? Look, people make bad decisions, but that in no way excuses what happened to them, and it in no way makes it their fault. We all do stupid shit, but we don’t deserve to be harassed, or assaulted, or raped, or whatever because of it.

And your comment is victim-blaming every way you look at it. And you claim to be trying to fight on women’s sides, yet you often make comments that we blatantly show do nothing but promote this kind of thinking. Maybe you should stop talking and starting listening for a little while, because there are reasons that comments like that, and actions like the ones Saraid has written about, don’t make anything better. And we’re trying to tell you.

Saraid, thank you so much for writing this post. Like we spoke about earlier, harassment has been so normalized for us, and we come to expect it and excuse it so often. It’s not your fault, and I’m so sorry that you had to go through any of this.

Saraid, I am both sorry that these things happened and relieved that they didn’t go any farther. Unfortunately, so many of us are trained to believe that harassment is normal, so it is not at all unusual to completely forget shit that happened. Thank you for writing this post.

I never understood why men could never understand the word “no”. I have been with with my guy for almost 6 years (I was almost 16 when we started dating) and he has always been great…but other guys were assholes. I had experiences where I would be making out with a guy and he would try to put his hands down my pants and I ALWAYS moved them and even said no a couple of times, but it was like he/they never got the message and kept trying. There were many times where I just “gave up”. Pisses me right off, how many assholes there are out there.

“Against the rules of my program I got in the car with them and drove around.”

I don’t want to get into ‘victim blaming’ or anything along those lines, but I do wish kids on these programs would realize that THIS IS EXACTLY WHY RULES LIKE THIS ARE IMPLEMENTED.

Rape and sexual harassment are only ever the FAULT of the sexual predator who commits them; but I wish kids were more sensible and able to see that by ignoring rules like these, they give sexual predators an opportunity to commit sexual harassment or rape that they might not otherwise have had.

I realize that this isn’t the position you probably expected anybody to take, but I have a unique perspective. I actually got OUT of that business specifically because these stupid kids would break the rules time and time again and I said to myself, with a sense of dread: “One of these days, something bad’s going to happen to one of them.”

I didn’t want to be in a position of responsibility when that happened, because the kids would break the rules, put themselves in a vulnerable position and my ability to protect them from predators would be compromised. It was TERRIFYING.